GYMN-L Digest - 24 Apr 1995 to 25 Apr 1995
There
are 20 messages totalling 886 lines in this
issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Comments on Event Finals (Men) (ps)
2.
NCAA Team Finals (2)
3. PC
Gymnastics
4. Negativity - a
different slant
5. TITLE IX
and gymnastics
6. Title IX
Debate (3)
7. Mukhina (2)
8. Title IX and $$
9.
TV alert
10. TV ALERT
11. AP report listed in A. J. C.
12. TITLE IX battle rages
13. WWW home page
14. Title IX!!!
15. mukhina
again
16. Intro Adam
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 21:23:03
-0600
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject:
Comments on Event Finals (Men) (ps)
I
said:
| P-bars was taken by Richard Grace, who
recovered from his slow start
| of the night. This
was his second consecutive title on pbars. I
| didn't
get to see his routine but I remember that it included a
| massive straddle cut to begin the routine; consecutive giant
fulls
Actually, sorry, it's a "Tippelt", not a straddle cut, that
is Grace
started on the ends of the pbars, bailed out of the handstand, swung
under the bars, released and swung his legs up and out to
circle
around to the back, catch the bar,
immediate cast to handstand.
Similar to a Tkatchev.
rh
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:20:09
-0400
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject:
Re: NCAA Team Finals
On Mon, 24 Apr 1995, Adam wrote:
> I
couldn't agree with Josh more wholeheartedly. Title IX is a great idea
> in concept but in reality it just isn't working. Low revenue athletes,
> such as gymnasts, are losing out so that woman can
compete. A perfect
<snip>
> years. Take UCLA for example: They wanted to take away Men's
> gymnastics and replace it with WOMEN'S SOCCER. Now I don't care what
> anyone says, but thats a bunch a
CRAP!!!!! Kids like me who worked
all
> their lives in the hot sweaty confines of
the gym basically got their
> colons ripped out
by Title IX!! TITLE IX
SUCKS!!!!
Oh, so women who have spent all *their* lives working at
their sport don't
deserve the opportunity to
participate in college as much as men do?
Women should lose out so that
low-rev male athletes can keep their
sport? Low-rev
male athletes are losing out because when athletic
departments
decide how to distribute the men's programs' money, they
favor
huge football programs (which, as someone pointed out, do *not*
need the number of scholarships they get) over
"low-revs". AD's
should
fund men and women equally. If that means men have to get less
money,
that's tough. Women have *always* gotten less, and we
deserve equal
treatment. And if it means AD's have to pick
certain men's sports over
others (questionable,
since they could cut the number of football
scholarships
by almost half, or at least a third, and besides
scholarships,
they have a lot of other expenses that would be saved by
having
smaller teams and expenses that are entirely questionable, like
hotels the night before home games), that's the way
it's
gotta be. I don't like the fact that gymnastics is
losing so much, but
equal status for women's
sports matters more to me. And I
really dislike
that, as usual, women are getting
blamed (which is what the "unintended
consequence
of Title IX" phrase sounds like to me). If anything is going
to be blamed, it should be the priorities that give football
a privileged
status and the fact that we have this
sport with no women's equivalent
that ends up
skewing athletic opportunities in favor of men (yes,
football
players are *men*. While there are
arguments for which sports
should get what, the
bottom line as far as I'm concerned is that male
athletes
are fungible, and which men get what doesn't matter to me as
much as women athletes getting their fair share). I probably shouldn't
even get started on the issue of the NFL and NBA paying for
their own
minor league, rather than letting the
colleges bear all the cost for
athletes who are so
obviously there only because it's their only way to
the
pros. And no one even mention the
myth that football pays for
itself and every other
sport, because the majority of football programs
actually
run at a deficit -- they don't even pay for themselves.
Wow, I'm all
out of breath...
:)
Adriana
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:40:00
PDT
From: ***@POWERGRID.ELECTRICITI.COM
Subject:
Re: PC Gymnastics
>Anyone know of any current programs/games
available?
Well, yes. We were introduced to this program briefly
at Worlds in Dortmund
and ran a blurb in IG
People.
Following is the PR sheet we brought home. Didn't get a demo
copy of the
program; don't know anyone with a PC
anyway. (Dory, you're a little far
away.)
It
ain't a game and it ain't
cheap (anyone oversee a big budget?), but I
thought
I'd add it to the list anyway.
************************************
GYMNASTICS
DATA BASE
Using up to date computing technology, it is possible now to
build a modern
data base on artistic gymnastics.
Unfortunately the usual data base
programs are not designed to deal with our problem,
therefore we decided to
create our own program,
combining vocabulary, numeric and graphic
information.
There are about 5000 elements in gymnastics, some 2000 more
difficult ones described in the men and women Code of
Points. Because of
such an amount of elements, it
is neccessery to organise a
program and data
in a special way, therefore each
problem is dealt with in a special module,
and all
modules are joined in the GYM shell.
What can you do with the data base:
1.
You can learn the elements from the Code of Points,
2.
You can test your knowledge,
3.
You can keep records and analysis of the elements performed by a
competitor,
4.
You can keep records and analysis of competitions.
Such a data base can be useful to trainers, gymnasts, parents,
sports
teachers, sport reporters etc.,
irrespective of their previous knowledge.
In order to use the complete
basic data base you need a PC AT compatible
computer, 80286 processor, 640 KB RAM (at least 512 KB
free), VGA graphic
card (640x480, 16 colours), at least 10 MB free on the hard disc, 3.1/2
(1.44
MB) or 5.1/4 (1.2 MB) floppy disc, a mouse, a B/W or colour screen,
HP 2 laser printer
(for picture printing), DOS 3.3.
The demo program and the demo
basic data base is available on disc. On your
hard disc create the GYMBASE directory and copy the contents
of the floppy
discs. You start the program by
typing in EXAMDEMO. With EXAMDEMO you can
test
your knowledge on some parts of the Code of points. Till now we
prepared 11 different language bases (Settings and Language
command) for
the demo version you can use English,
German and French variety. If you
want to command
press ALT and highlighted character or point the mouse on
command and click the left mouse. With command Area you set
either the
questions from Rings or Theory. Command
Testing requires your name, number
of questions
you want to answer and time limit (0-no limit). When you press
OK you will
receive on the screen first question. Press A, B, C, D or E
depending which answer is correct. You can stop command if
you press ECS.
On the second page you can see the analyse of one exercise on parallel bars.
Complete
data base with following programs costs 2000 DM ($1450
US):
GYM SHELL
<shell for all modules>
G
ELEMENTS <module to create your own data base>
G
EXAM <module to test the knowledge>
G
ANALYSE <module to analyse exercises and competitons>
G EXAM only = 750 DM ($540 US) and G
ANALYSE 1250 DM ($900 US).
Contact:
m.sc. Ivan Cuk
Faculty of sport
Gortanova 22
61000 Ljubljana
Slovenia
tel.: ++ 386 61 1401 077, fax.: ++ 386 61 448148.
***********************************************
Ivan's
a nice guy; I made his day telling him I'd had -and liked- Slovenian
beer. (Union, which you can get in Calif. at Trader Joe's.
As well as other
yummies.)
BTW,
Ivan told me Aljaz Pegan
learned "his" release (tucked Gaylord
half-out)
because he couldn't catch a regular Gaylord. The concept had been
developed with Blaz Puljic (now at New Mexico) in mind ... anyone remember
if he threw it at NCAAs? As good as Pegan, by any chance?
Okay, enough
bandwidth.
Later,
Nancy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:28:40
UT
From: ***@MSN.COM
Subject:
Re: Negativity - a different slant
>That really CAN be
harmful. Is my
>comment on how 'gymnast A gained weight
and looks fat' really important to
>this list?
NO.
Robin,
I stand my
my earlier comment - but first let me make sure you
understand that I'm also
one of the people who
'protects' the gymnasts - I don't like seeing them
flamed
either. But I still believe that if we were not talking about girls,
and they were not this age, that commenting on their weight
would not be an
issue to the readers, though still
inappropriate, nor dangerous. :)
JR
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:15:15
-0400
From: ***@PHARM.MED.UPENN.EDU
Subject:
TITLE IX and gymnastics
I can see from the two posts following that
the tact that the coaches want
to take is
very
legitimate and appropriate. "unintended
consequence" is directed at the
administrators. Title IX is supposed to give
opportunities to women, which
the men
endorse. But they don't want to be
cut to create proportionality -
which is not
required by title IX (this is not a quota law, but an equal
opportunity law -- a very large [legal] difference). They also can't
afford
to have the football programs against them, because they are the
money - whether consumers or producers, they are the
money. So, how do you
word something so that neither group sees you as a threat,
but welcomes
your sport? I would like to hear some suggestions on
position statements,
rather than bashing their
efforts. They are stuck between a
rock and a
hard place, and really don't need
someone putting a ceiling over them.
It
is not appropriate for women to move
forward at the expense of sports that
have been
supportive in the past and continue to be supportive, and to be
honest at the many meetings I have attended regarding the
formation of
women's sports opportunities (by
women's groups) none of them desire to
have the
non-revenue, small sports cut. They
all agree that it would be
stupid to alienate
those that are willing to help - when legislation is
proposed
it is being written for both sexes and all small sports. To be
honest
men's gymnastics is probably one of the most respected by AD's,
presidents, etc. for thier
intelligent and respectful approach.
As
supporters of this sport, we should
demonstrate the same qualities.
ALL
OLYMPIC sports need to be at the collegiate level, not just men
or women -
ALL, lets work together to protect olympic sports and their athletes
opportunities.
any suggestions for wording on a position statement will be
forwarded to
the appropriate people.
Mayland
>On Mon, 24 Apr 1995,
Adam wrote:
>
>> I couldn't agree with Josh more
wholeheartedly. Title IX is a great
idea
>> in concept but in reality it just
isn't working. Low revenue
athletes,
>> such as gymnasts, are losing
out so that woman can compete. A
perfect
><snip>
>> years. Take UCLA
for example: They wanted to take
away Men's
>> gymnastics and replace it with
WOMEN'S SOCCER. Now I don't care
what
>> anyone says, but thats
a bunch a CRAP!!!!! Kids like me
who worked all
>> their lives in the hot
sweaty confines of the gym basically got their
>> colons
ripped out by Title IX!! TITLE IX
SUCKS!!!!
>Wow, I'm all out of breath...
>
>:)
>Adriana
>
>Oh,
so women who have spent all *their* lives working at their sport don't
>deserve the opportunity to participate in college as much as
men do?
>Women should lose out so that low-rev male athletes can keep their
>sport? Low-rev male athletes are losing out
because when athletic
>departments decide how
to distribute the men's programs' money, they
>favor
huge football programs (which, as someone pointed out, do *not*
>need the number of scholarships they get) over
"low-revs". AD's
should
>fund men and women equally. If that means men have to get less
money,
>that's tough. Women have *always* gotten less, and we
deserve equal
>treatment. And if it means AD's have to pick
certain men's sports over
>others
(questionable, since they could cut the number of football
>scholarships by almost half, or at least a third, and
besides
>scholarships, they have a lot of other
expenses that would be saved by
>having smaller
teams and expenses that are entirely questionable, like
>hotels the night before home games), that's the way
it's
>gotta be. I don't like the fact that gymnastics is
losing so much, but
>equal status for women's
sports matters more to me. And I
really dislike
>that, as usual, women are
getting blamed (which is what the "unintended
>consequence
of Title IX" phrase sounds like to me). If anything is going
>to be blamed, it should be the priorities that give football
a privileged
>status and the fact that we have
this sport with no women's equivalent
>that
ends up skewing athletic opportunities in favor of men (yes,
>football players are *men*. While there are arguments for which
sports
>should get what, the bottom line as far
as I'm concerned is that male
>athletes are
fungible, and which men get what doesn't matter to me as
>much as women athletes getting their fair share). I probably shouldn't
>even get started on the issue of the NFL and NBA paying for
their own
>minor league, rather than letting
the colleges bear all the cost for
>athletes
who are so obviously there only because it's their only way to
>the pros. And no
one even mention the myth that football pays for
>itself
and every other sport, because the majority of football programs
>actually run at a deficit -- they don't even pay for
themselves.
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:14:48
-0500
From: ***@SUVAX1.STETSON.EDU
Subject:
Title IX Debate
I see that Title IX has reared its ugly head again and
many have taken the
opportunity to bash football
once again. Yes, I agree that Title
IX should
be used to increase the number of
women's sports and scholarships, rather
than
simply reducing men's. However, I
think that the opinions are a bit
misguided. Look at the top women's gymnastics
programs in the the US (and
the
top men's programs for that matter).
What schools do they represent?
Alabama, Georgia,
Nebraska, Oklahoma, UCLA, Florida, etc. I can almost
guarantee
you that these programs flourish *because* of what football has
done for the athletic programs there. Where do you think the money for
the equipment and the
travel come from? Where do you
think the travel
money comes from?
Yes,
football has a lot of scholarships.
On the other hand, it generally
raises a
lot of money. I'm not just
referring to the direct revenue football
generates
from its events, I'm talking about the money raised for Booster
memberships and alumni giving that's directly tied to
football. I'm sure that
many schools *technically* loose money on football, but
that's only because
alumni giving and booster club
dues are not factored in. That
bottom line is,
football scholarships should not
be counted toward Title IX compliance
because it
is *the* revenue generator for most schools. Take the University
of Florida. It's athletic revenues are now closing in on $100 million a
year.
The athletic program is totally funded by the Athletic Association,
who get
their funds from athletic events
(primarily football, but also men's basket-
ball
to a lesser extent) and Booster dues.
I don't know many UF boosters who
would
contribute the amounts they do because we have a good gymnastics program
(or any other non-revenue sport for that matter). It's because of football.
The
non-revenue teams fly in the school's private jet because of football,
get great facilities because of football.
When the
other sports starts drawing enough of a crowd to fund themselves,
they you can make your case for football. Until then, let's try to give
equal opportunities to all college athletes and let's avoid
making football
the scapegoat for one's
bitterness.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:40:27
EDT
From: ***@MIT.EDU
Subject:
Re: Title IX Debate
I think the whole problem being caused by Title IX
centers around what
people in charge think collage
sports are for. There priority in
sports
is money and winning. I think sports should
be for fun. Many of the
non-revenue had large bugets. The problem the many athletic
departments
have is that they do not have the
money to both keep non-revenue men's
teams and add
womens teams.
What I think should be done is cut down the
money
each sport gets but keep the sport.
That might mean having no
scholarships for
non-revenue sports, cutting back on trip expenses, and
having
less coaches. Some people might say, how could we have a strong
team
without those things. I think it is
better to have a team that is
not as competive than to team.
I am lucky to be at a
school that, in my opinion, has its priorities
strait.
MIT has 15 women's sports and 21 men's sports. MIT is only 35%
women. 2 women's teams have been added in the
last fue years, and no
mens teams have been dropped. There are no scholarships, and all
the
programs are low budget. The budget for the men's gymnastics team
is
under $50,000 a year. That includes paying for the coach.
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 10:20:22
-0400
From: ***@SIDWELL.EDU
Subject:
Re: Mukhina
> I think I heard
the uneven bars story too, but I also think that was
> notorious Soviet "disinformation." When she first
got injured, they put
> out all sorts of
conflicting stories about it and made it seem like she
> would recover fully, etc. Somewhere I have a
Russian-published
> article/interview with Mukhina, and she said she was doing floor and
> trying a move she really wasn't ready to be doing. On top of
that, she
> had broken her takeoff leg sometime
earlier, and wasn't back at full
> strength.
She knew she had no business attempting the move, but her
> coach insisted that she keep doing it. I think she said she will never
> forgive him for
that.
The story in the videotape "Gymnastics Greatest Stars"
is pretty much the
same thing. I haven't watched the video in a long
time, but I'm pretty
sure that it said that Mukhina was trying to come back from an injury a
few weeks before the Moscow Olympics. One of the coaches (not her
regular coach) kept pushing her to try a really difficult
move that she
didn't want to do, but she did it
anyways, landed on her chin, and
snapped her
spine. It ended with something like
"Today, Elena Mukhina is
sorry
she didn't say no. Today, Elena Mukhina is paralyzed..." (and
then
went on to play happy music, showing Bart
Conner qualifying for a ton of
event finals at the
'78 Worlds, or something along those lines.) It
didn't
say anything about a bars fall or anything.
It's really too bad that Mukhina had to get injured, because apparently
she threw a whole bunch of really hard skills, like a
full-in on floor
and a double back off beam, which
are still pretty hard skills today, but
she was
doing them in the late '70's. I
wonder what she could have been
if she hadn't
gotten injured.
Lisa
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:50:57
-0500
From: ***@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU
Subject:
Re: Mukhina
Says Lisa:
> It's
really too bad that Mukhina had to get injured, because
apparently
> she threw a whole bunch of really
hard skills, like a full-in on floor
> and a
double back off beam, which are still pretty hard skills today, but
> she was doing them in the late '70's. I wonder what she could have been
>
if she hadn't gotten injured.
Uh, no. It's too
bad that Mukhina had to get injured because of what
that
means for her present and future. She's stuck in a wheelchair. When her
grandmother
dies, will she even have a source of financial support? What
would
her life be like now if she hadn't gotten injured? Easier, I'd bet.
Her difficult
tricks just don't seem that important, comparatively.
--
Ilene
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:51:22
-0500
From: ***@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU
Subject:
Re: NCAA Team Finals
I absolutely agree with Adriana on this one. Women work just as hard as
men at their sports and should be funded at an equal
level. Sure, I can
feel sorry that some men who expected scholarships won't get
them, but
those expectations were based on an
unfair system.
Now, since Adriana doesn't want to talk about
professionally funded minor
leagues for football
and basketball, I will. How many
pro baseball players
went to college? Some, but not many. Doesn't seem to matter--baseball
players make good enough money that if they want a college
education when
they retire, they can easily get
one. If football and basketball
players
were trained the same way (by moving up
through the professional ranks),
there would be a
lot of scholarship money left for other sports, as well as
equipment money, travel expenses, coaches salaries,
etc.
Now, at the risk of completely alienating everyone, I think that
would be
the wrong way to spend that money. You don't need to go to college to
participate in sports.
College athletics is just one venue; there are
private
clubs, professional sports, neighborhood gyms, etc. On the other
hand,
college is absolutely necessary if you want to be an engineer,
doctor, lawyer, scholar, and on and on and on. I'd rather see the money
spent on academic scholarships, lower tuitions for
disadvantaged students,
and the like.
--
Ilene
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 00:01:00
PDT
From: ***@MCM.COM
Subject:
Re: Title IX Debate
Mike writes:
---------
Yes, football has a
lot of scholarships. On the other
hand, it generally
raises a lot of money. I'm not just referring to the direct
revenue football
generates from its events, I'm
talking about the money raised for Booster
memberships
and alumni giving that's directly tied to football. I'm sure that
many
schools *technically* loose money on football, but that's only because
alumni giving and booster club dues are not factored
in. That bottom line is,
football scholarships should not be counted toward Title IX
compliance
because it is *the* revenue generator
for most schools. (snip)
-----------------
Okay, this is a very long
debate and I am sure we could go on for decades
talking
about it. Yes, I
agree that football success will help bring in the booster
donations.
I
do not agree that they should not be counted toward title nine and still
give
out scholarships. Like Adrianna said, girls that train all
their lives should
have
the same opportunity that
boys have. If we are not to count
football
scholarships,
then I believe that the football team should become a
semi-pro affiliate of the
school. Let's face it, football players, and
basketball players to some extent,
do not get the
education they are promised. Let's
quit kidding ourselves, and
just pay them the
money they deserve. They may have a
scholarship to an
education, but most of them know
they are "paid" to play, and the coaches
will
remind them. Although a sport like
gymnastics may take more time actually
practicing
than football, a gymnast does not spend hours watching film, in
coaches meetings, and giving interviews.
Two
problems I have with the "football supports the athletic department so
give
them whatever they want" mentality: 1)
Each night they spend at the hotel room
before
EVERY home game adds up to ONE full ride scholarship for a gymnast, and
2) Why do they
need 88 scholarship athletes when most second and third string
players at places like Florida State, CU, Miami, and
Nebraska could start at
just
about any other
school? The only thing dropping the
number of scholarships for
football would do is
make the sport more competitive by spreading the great
players
to all schools, instead of stockpiling them all in Florida.
Sorry this
post is so long and not really about gymnastics (although I believe
that
Title
IX could be the demise of men's college Olympic sports, and so I feel it
is
important enough to try and come up with a solution).
Josh
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 09:16:51
PDT
From: ***@ROYALDIGITAL.COM
Subject:
Re: Title IX and $$
Regarding all the posts about title IX and funding
for Gymnastics:
1. Funding
has to come from somewhere. Those
Football Scholarships
are often funded by grants from wealthy alma
mater, as well as
the funds actually raised by the football program. Gymnasts
need
someone looking for grant money from somewhere - $50,000 to
run
a program doesn't sound like much for a corporate sponser.
Are there any former
gymnasts now in high places in companies
who
could benefit from the publicity of funding an NCAA team?
2. Someone (or group) has recently done
wonders for the sport of
figure skating by staging so many exhibitions
(and, yes, the
baseball
strike helped them immensely) that have been
televised. Is it possible for Gymnasts to do the
same? Also,
they
did not restrict the exhibitions to American figure
skaters,
but went for the world's best. It
has drawn quite a
following.
3.
With the 1996 Olympics quickly approaching, gymnastics groups
need
to organize now to make the best use of the surge of
interest
in the sport. The goal of this is
to keep the interest
(and the necessary funding, probably from private
groups) for
the next four years, to allow teams to afford good
coaching
and doesn't drive out gymnasts because of personal
finances.
As much as we don't want money to matter, it does. Coaches can only
live
on low salaries for so long. Parents
can only pay for programs
for so long. And it is a tragedy that talented
gymnasts who cannot
afford training are left
behind.
Just MHO. Thanks
if you got here without hitting *delete*.
Diane
Gymn Mom
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 11:07:45
EDT
From: ***@BBN.COM
Subject:
Re: TV alert
My TV section from this past Sunday claims that (at
least
in the Boston area) the CBS coverage of the
NCAA
will be 3-4 p.m. Saturday April 29, so check
your local
listings carefully--afternoon shows
have a habit of "migrating."
>>Kathy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 12:28:18
-0500
From: ***@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
Subject:
TV ALERT
Date sent:
25-APR-1995 12:26:23
TV schedules are cetainly
unpredictable, especially when it
comes to
gymnastics. I've seen them totally preempted (local
station
did it with the 1987 USA Championships)
Anyway, in my area (Fox Valley
Area Stations, WIsconsin) it is
scheduled for 2 p.m. Also listed as being from Austin
Texas.
Makes me VERY wary....just a typo, or was
that where the men's
meet was held?
Help
if ya know.
Jennifer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:17:57
-0400
From: ***@PRISM.GATECH.EDU
Subject:
AP report listed in A. J. C.
The following is a transcribe of an
Atlanta Journal Constitution
article that I am
sure came via the AP or some other news source.
It appeared in the Sunday
(April 23rd ) issue in the "Inside the
Olympics"
column by Karen Rosen and Joe
Drape.
Trouble Down Under
Elite-level
women's gymnastics continues to get uglier with
Australian
authorities inverstigating
the national team coach for alleged msitreatment
of atheletes. Parents of gymnasts
say that chinese-born coach Ju
Ping Tian
punished the
girls i fthey put on
weight, and accuse her of kicking,
smacking, and
forcing gymnasts to run fully clothed in a sauna if they
recieve unsatisfactory
scores.
Federal sports minister John Faulkner has st
up an independent inquiry while
Jim Ferguson, executive director of the
Australian Sports Commission, says
the accusations
may be racially motivated. "I can't comment on anything
specific but I believe some of the [allegations] have racist
overtones."
Ju Ping is credited with
elevating the Australian women from a world ranking
in
the 20s to a high of sixth last year. She denied the allegations and
said that none of the gymnasts in her program was unhappy.
Monique Allen, two-
time Olympian and Australia's
highest ranked female gymnast, said Ju Ping
had been like a mother to her during her tiem
at the institute., which
started in 1984 and ended
last year when she retired: " I have an enormous
amount
of respect for Ju Ping".
I
apologize if this has already appeared in the mail group. I was just
wondering if anyone else has seen this article. I was rather
surprised
by the success of Team Australia in
Barcelona and now I know who to
contribute it
to.
Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:18:37
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Re: TITLE IX battle rages
I have two girls and boy and am a former
college coach with a "hands-on"
perspective
on Title IX. I want my girls to get
all the opportunities their
hard work will
deserve. Conversely, my son will
likely peak at about 5'8" or
smaller, and be
solid muscle. Great wrestler or gymnast--poor scholarship
potential. So I am learning to "deal with
it". My oldest (girl, 12 y/o)
has
taken two years of golf lessons in addition to
gymnastics. It's a lifelong
sport with scholarship potential. The other two will also be taught
to
diversify skills--academically too! They also have savings programs for
school THEY already contribute to. What a unique concept,
helping oneself pay
for school. Maybe they'll work
at it when there?
The primary problem I see with T9 is implementation by AD's. Colleges are
NOT good
businesses, generally. Most
athletic departments look at funding as
a"zero sum game"...limited money and so few
people to get it. Many
advocates
pushing T9 implementation on campus
aren't coaches or AD employees, but from
the
liberal arts and social scientists who traditionally hold ALL athletics
in contempt anyway.
Yet many AD's ignored (root word ignorant) T9 'til the
NCAA had to mandate change
by sanction. Others destroyed good
men's programs
that were growing, capable of
bringing in paying fans (wrestling and baseball
are
good examples), to make room for female quotas, putting entire programs
in red ink and alienating alumni. During the early years of T9, many
young
women who had no business being paid
(athletically) to go to school--the
talent just
was not there--got scholarships.
Many worthy young men got
scholarships
reduced or their sports eliminated entirely to free up the money
for these women.
Today, however, the possibility of female scholarship in
sports like basketball, softball, swimming and golf has
created a huge
recreational and highschool athletic boom for girls. Today's women's
athletes, at least in those sports, can be truly
exceptional. Gymnastics
does not yet have enough outlets at the college level for
women for its huge
recreational base. Men's
gymnastics just got caught in the political
crossfire--no
fans, no corporate donors, small alumni base--no $. What is
the
presence of boys gymnastics in the private sector, compared to girls?
Its a tough call
isn't it?
I have no problem with women's soccer--the fields are
available, there is a
strong, growing base, etc.
But it should be accompanied by a corresponding
push
(eventual requirement) to put fans in the stands. Also, men's "minor"
sports should be promoted fully to develop fan support before
getting cut.
One thing is certain, all scholarship options are going to dry up if
institutions
don't get their academic act together. The Alumni still fund
most scholarships for athletics. A growing number of Alumni
feel colleges are
not teaching people to get
private sector jobs and produce tangible value,
but
instead are indoctrinating and creating activists. Many perceive their
alma mater is implementing quota systems instead of fielding
teams that can
vie for national titles in high
visibility sports (men AND women). With that
perception,
dollars will dry up for ALL my kids, and yours too!
Sports like
wrestling and mens gymnastics will have to field
their own donor
base from individuals or
corporations. The revenue stream
will have to be
widened if they cannot attract
enough paying fans to support themselves.
Or
they WILL be cut. Once gender "equity" is
achieved, womens sports will die
again if they haven't attracted donors or developed
contributing alumni that
can sustain all
funding. Next time they won't be
created or saved by "equity"
programs...if
they try and fail, they'll be allowed to die without
corresponding
cuts to men's programs.
The better women's coaches--especially female
ones--will say "just give me
enough money to field and support a winning, dominant team
over a period of
time and I'll deliver fans,
support and a contributing alumni base". That's
what
winners do. Adding new sports when the money is
scarce for the
existing womens
sports, or cutting mens programs are not as popular
with many
womens teams'
coaches as many of the more academic types think. The issue has
evolved from a mens opportunity at the expense women's opportunity, to
a
political exercise. That mis-focus
can and should be addressed.
//Don
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:19:31
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Re: WWW home page
Like ChinaHand, I'd really
like to see a WWW hoome page, with Hypertext to
major sports journals (like Sports Ill) as well as other Gymn-type
activities. It would
be a nice way to tie in internationally.
"W"orld "W"ide
"W"eb will be supported heavily
by America Online soon, and CompuServe has
Internet
enhancements coming. Prodigy is already doing well with WWW. I'd
also like to see a Hypertext jump to an Internet Relay Chat
Gymnastics channel
, and a jump to downloads for
clients, viewers, GIF/JPEG files and club
support
software. Is that enough for you
egghead academics :)
to design?
how 'bout it MIT? What designers want to take up the
challenge?
How does the rest of GYMN feel? Would you use it? Would you find IRC/Gymn
attractive?
//Don
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 15:39:44
-0700
From: ***@LAFN.ORG
Subject:
Title IX!!!
This is in response to Adriana's response to mine.
I
don't think this is a matter of women working hard all their lives, I
believe just as you... that they should get what they
deserved and worked
for. But Title IX is about equal oppurtunity, which relates very closely
to another heated subject- Affirmative Action- which like
Title IX I am
adamently
against. In order to help out
people who have been
discriminated against we
should not discriminate against others.
Which
is exactly what Title IX and
Affirmative Action do. I, or anyone
else,
should not be discriminated against so that
we can help others. Your
arguments about allocating the money in other ways so that
gymnastics
benefits more are simply
hypothetical. The reality of it is
that
football rakes in the money, so football is
going to get the money-not
gymnastics. Relieving one's suffering to place it on
the shoulder's of
another
is just wrong.
Thanx for your time :)
-Adam
P.S. That last message
that I posted was sent to everyone else but me.
Why didn't I recieve my own post? :(
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:07:00
EST-11
From: ***@DISINFORMATION.BF.RMIT.EDU.AU
Subject:
mukhina again
According to "History of
Gymnastics", Mukhina was injured practising
alone in the gym
trying to qualify for the Moscow Games after poor
showings
in USSR competitions in early 1980.
I haven't read this
book for some time, but
it was written by a British author, but I'm
sure a
fall from the bars was mentioned.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 19:56:38
-0700
From: ***@LAFN.ORG
Subject:
Intro Adam
I
joined this forum about two weeks ago and failed to introduce
myself, besides through my reactionary comments on Title
IX. Anyway I
have
uploaded my essay that I wrote for my college applications. It's
pretty
much dedicated to what gymnastics has done for me. It may sound
a
little egotistical at times, but that is because its my college essay
and thats what you've gotta do for these things. I'm not including
this
essay in order to pump myself up.
But rather, you guys/gals being
fellow
gymnasts and all, this is something I feel that you will be able
to relate to...most gymnasts can:
College Essay
Save
seven months, for the past nine years I lived my life striving for
perfection. The familiar soft gray walls of a
revamped warehouse served as my
home, and six
events
amidst a sweaty chalk filled
atmosphere provided for a common bond between
myself,
six peers and a scruffy looking forty-five year old
coach. The Olympic Games
provided
the impetus for
such crazy devotion; six to seven hours during the summer, three
to four during
school. Every single day minus
Sundays, (holidays were
obsolete) my second
family
and I could be found within the beautiful, sweaty ambiance of our gym.
During my career as a gymnast I was fortunate to rise into the upper
echelon of
gymnasts in America, I was
selected to the United States Junior Olympic National
Team on more than one occasion, with
third place serving as my best ranking
among U.S.
gymnasts of my age.
My accolades and
achievements are only secondary though;
dedication,
maturity and self-confidence are the true rewards of spending over
half my
life working out in the gym.
The
incessant grind of giving one hundred percent everyday after school
evolved
my current work ethic. The controlling factors in my strive for
perfection were
hard work and dedication. No matter how you feel on that given day
you give it
your
all, and after
some time it becomes almost
habit; you get caught in a groove- like that of a
needle on a
broken phonograph, only external forces can keep you off your path.
This attitude has
carriedJover to school, which
explains how with a three and one half hour
workout everyday
after school and a schedule peppered with A.P. courses I have
received only
one
"B", the rest "A's", since
beginning high school. My
record proves almost as
untainted throughout junior high and elementary school.
Had
I not grown up inside a gym I would definitely not be the same as I am
today. I just thank God I chose gymnastics as
early as I did; such a sport
allowed me to mature
both
physically and mentally to a level that would have been impossible for me
to attain had I
chosen a different course. My six
teammates and I showed each
other that, yes, it
was
possible to cope and deal with the social roller coaster of teenage life
and
still
live in and escape to another world every day. That other world is
gymnastics, and
the pressures
which go along with staying in
shape to compete with the worlds' elite, let
alone the
nations' best, are great multiples of a school's social life.
Walking into the gym everyday
granted an escape, a solace of sorts. Such repetition provided for the
ability
to
disregard all surrounding circumstances, to focus on the present, to give
me
a
clarity of mind for
which I can only be too
thankful.
The
self-confidence which I have developed came directly
from the innumerable
hours spent in the
gym. The many awards amassed did
not come because I was
ambitious one month and lackadaisical the next; it took
years and years of
training to
attain such a
level. I was not one of the best
from the get-go, no one is.
For
this
reason, when I make an attempt at something and my first results are
unsuccessful, I
am naturally
a little disappointed; but I
possess the self-confidence and experience that
allows for me to
keep plugging away, for I honestly believe that with enough
hard work I
can
accomplish most anything.
It
becomes a point of curiosity why I would quit something I loved so much
and
which did so much for me. The most simple
answer is that I wanted something
new, I had been
tending to the same needs all my life. I felt it was time to
move on. I am now
seventeen
years old, and it is time to experience all the beautiful things our
world has
to
offer, outside of the gym.
------------------------------
End
of GYMN-L Digest - 24 Apr 1995 to 25 Apr 1995
*************************************************